On the September 30 issue of the MX daily newspaper, a Sarah from Box Hill wrote on the MX Talk section of the paper her experience one day while on a train to the city. Her husband and another man were speaking to each other in an Indian dialect when a woman sitting a few seats away started yelling at them.
The woman said, “Will you stop talking to each other in some other sh*t language? I have been hearing this for the past 20 minutes. You are not supposed to talk in my country in another language.”
Let me just quote the next part:
Once my husband got over the initial shock of such rudeness and arrogance, he said, “This is racism! We are talking to each other. We are not talking to you.”
Upon which the woman continued to curse them in a colourful language, which my husband and his friend completely ignored.
And to top it off, when the train approached the city, another passenger came near my husband and said, “Shes’ not wrong. When you are in Australia, you’ve got to speak in English.”
Unbelievable! Sarah’s husband is right. He wasn’t talking to the woman seated a few seats away from them. I mean, Raquel and I would talk to each other in Tagalog because it’s what we’re most comfortable with. Sure, as this blog can attest, we could speak and comprehend English rather well but when talking to each other, why wouldn’t we speak in Tagalog?
I understand that it would be rude to continue speaking in Tagalog if we were in the company of friends and companions who wouldn’t be able to speak Tagalog. In that case, we would speak in English because we wanted the others to be included in the conversation. It’s just plain courtesy.
However, if we are in a public place, like in a train with complete strangers, we don’t have to exert ourselves by conversing in English when we could easily communicate in Tagalog. After all, the strangers around us do not need to understand what we were talking about. If we were talking in English, it would have been rude of them to be listening in on our conversation anyway.
So, I think that Sarah’s husband and friend wasn’t being rude to anybody when they were talking in their Indian dialect. It’s probably just easier for them to talk to each other in their own tongue, is all. But the woman who yelled, well, she was being rude. Who was she that she needed to understand what they were talking about? Was she angry that she couldn’t eavesdrop on them?
Take a look at it this way. Imagine if two Australians went to visit Indonesia and they both know how to speak Indonesian, would they talk to each other in Indonesian in a bus when they could better express themselves to one another in English? Should all Australians visiting India, Indonesia, Japan, Hong Kong or some other non-English-speaking country be required to speak in that country’s native tongue when they are there?
It’s absolutely ridiculous! Next you would probably required Americans to speak in an Australian accent when they’re here! Then maybe the Americans can ban Australians from using Aussie-slang when they are in the US?
I wonder if that woman had any parents or relatives who weren’t born in Australia. Like, maybe a parent or relative that migrated from, say, Italy. Would she require her parents or relatives to speak in English to their Italian friends if they don’t have a good command of the English language?
It’s just stupid.
Fortunately, on yesterday’s issue of MX, a few people wrote to express their support for Sarah. However, there was a John from Broadmeadows who wrote in the following:
Sarah, the woman, although rude, was not completely in the wrong. It’s rude to speak another language in front of someone.
So, like I said. If John visited another country like Indonesia with a friend, he shouldn’t be speaking to this friend of his in English when in public places where locals (and complete strangers) could overhear them talking. After all, it’s rude to talk to your friend in a language both of you are most comfortable with in the presence of strangers in a foreign country. Right?
Wilson,
I do not understand why you are very angry at me here at Palabok for expressing my disagreement with your point of view regarding the little matter of being able to speak one’s native tongue while in public? And in case you weren’t really paying attention to what I’ve already written, we are trying to assimlate. I speak in English (albeit American English) whenever I can in public. Are you happy? Somehow I feel that you’ll be happy only when I could speak English with an Australian accent? Isn’t that right?
I’d also like to make clear that I do not condone any form of violence. I’m a Roman Catholic and, as a Christian, I do not believe that violence solves anything. If anything, violence only begets further violence.
I agree with your definition of racism/racist. You’ll notice that I do not refer to you as such. I think the more appropriate term for you is xenophobic. In the end, I think that even if I could speak perfect English in public, you’d still want me to go home regardless. Don’t you?
Anyway, I want to add that I, too, find that people who migrated from other nations who want to turn Australia into another version of their home country and force everybody to accept it is just wrong. I agree with you that Muslim radicals have no right to turn Australia into another Islamic state. If they want an Islamic state, they should’ve stayed in the countries they came from. I agree with you on that.
You asked the question: “… what about the people inciting violence against, for example, non-Muslim Australians? Why isn’t THAT racist?” My answer, I think IT IS racist of them. Racist or not, inciting violence is simply wrong in my book.
So I take great offence when you wrote the following:
- “THREE CHEERS FROM PALABOK FOR THE PARIS RIOTS!!! YAY, PALABOK LIKES PRETTY FIRES THAT KILL!!!”
- “WHOOPEE, PALABOK SUPPORTS KILLING AUSTRALIANS WHO DON’T SUPPORT PALABOK BELIEFS!!”
What made you think I support riots for whatever reason? What made you think that I support killing of anybody, even Australians? These comments you’ve made about our site are completely defamatory and libelous.
Here’s another comment of yours I’d like to respond to: “Because Muslim Australians are the minority, and you’ll blindly defend anything that they say.” Do you even think I’m even Muslim? I’m a bloody Roman Catholic! So whenyou talk about “people inciting violence against, for example, non-Muslim Australians”, the non-Muslim Austrlians includes me and my wife.
I try to respect your opinions (some of which I share but obviously not all). But with every new increasingly hostile message you post, it’s becoming harder and harder for me to do so. I do not understand why you decided to attack the site (and therefore, me) with your libelous comments.
In case this wasn’t clear to you to begin with, my opinions and my wife’s aren’t the same as the opinion of those posting a reply on our site (like yourself). So don’t hate the site because of the opinions made by others who posted their comments. I may have replied that I agreed with some of their opinions but that doesn’t mean I agree with everything they’ve written here.
I try to be friendly and jovial with you even though we do not agree on the matter of the rudeness of speaking in another language in public but it seems like you are adamant in being hostile to me. I ask that you stop attacking us. I get your point already. And I would’ve thought that by now, you got mine. Apparently, you haven’t.
This is not just an issue about how unbelievably rude it is to speak your native language rather than English in Australia, this is just a minor example of foreigners in my country failing to attempt to assimilate into the culture, which leads to much larger problems.
For a start, I’ll attempt to alleviate your ignorance somewhat and teach you all the definition of a RACIST, something of which you are evidently not aware. A racist is someone who considers their race to be SUPERIOR to another race.
I am not a racist. In no way do I consider that my race is superior to another race, or indeed that I as an individual am superior to another individual. However, my belief, which I assure you is supported by other Australians, is that foreign races inhabiting a country leads to CRIME, HATRED, VIOLENCE, TERRORIST ATTACKS. This is without a doubt absolute truth. Look at the recent potential terrorist attack in Australia that was luckily evaded – that would never have occurred in Australia 15 years ago, and has occurred now only because the Government foolishly allowed foreigners into this country in huge unchecked numbers. Look at the rioting in Paris – 13 days straight, with hundreds of cars and buses set alight last night alone. Are you proud of that? That’s a product of multiculturalism. THREE CHEERS FROM PALABOK FOR THE PARIS RIOTS!!! YAY, PALABOK LIKES PRETTY FIRES THAT KILL!!!
Kurt Kennedy, the president of the Best Party of Allah in Australia, stated that he and his party members supported Iraqis killing Australian soldiers. Why, then, is he living in Australia, and not the Iraq that he supports? To whole-heartedly REVEL in the death of people from the country in which you live is sick – he should not be living here if those are his beliefs. The greatest concept John Howard has developed is his recent statement that people displaying un-Australian behaviour should be stripped of their citizenship and deported. No doubt you will all scream tearfully – “right to freedom and free speech” – as you conduct your closed-off little lives where you blissfully don’t have to integrate at all. Perhaps some of you saw Andrew Bolt on the Today show this morning. Bolt is a man who knows what’s wrong with Australia – the fact that foreigners, often taking advantage of our generous welfare system (largely because they can not speak our language – again, because they don’t try), DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO ASSIMILATE INTO OUR CULTURE AT ALL. Australia should NOT be multicultural – it can be multi-ethnical, with citizens from all nations around the earth holding hands in harmony, but they should come here with the desire to assimilate into our culture where Australians try to minimize the above-mentioned CRIME, HATRED, VIOLENCE, rather than breeding and encouraging it. To have Muslim Australian clerics who are preaching to kill non-Muslim Australians – this makes you happy? WHOOPEE, PALABOK SUPPORTS KILLING AUSTRALIANS WHO DON’T SUPPORT PALABOK BELIEFS!!! I have no problem with foreigners having different opinions to mine, I support free speech – that is why I am so vocal about my opinions. However, don’t you think that maybe all parties would be better off if these people lived in a country that they support, and which supports their ideas, rather than one they want to change through killing innocent people? I repeat, for those of you who will no doubt have missed the point – I am not a racist, I adore the masses of different people and races over the world. However, there are countries for these people that support their own beliefs and line of thinking. I wish no harm on these people inciting violence against Australians, they are free to that opinion – but they should do it from their native country that supports their ideas, rather than creating HATRED and racism AGAINST AUSTRALIANS in my country. Multiculturalism where foreigners REFUSE to assimilate and integrate leads to HATRED and VIOLENCE. I’ve no doubt lived in Australia a lot longer than any of you, having been born and raised here, and I am horrified at how foreigners are destroying my beautiful country. This is not born-and-bred Australians such as myself attacking Australia and Australians people, is it? Is it foreigners, perhaps??! At least attempt to get over your presumptuous PREJUDICES, answer the question honestly and you know I’m right. And again for those ignorant people calling me a racist – you all immediately brand anyone who speaks out against multiculturalism as a racist, but what about the people inciting violence against, for example, non-Muslim Australians? Why isn’t THAT racist? I’ll tell you why – because Muslim Australians are the minority, and you’ll blindly defend anything that they say. Dr Ameer Ali, president of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, said that “racially motivated violence (against Muslims) should be stopped”. What about racially-motivated violence against non-Muslims? That doesn’t seem to matter, does it? So how does all this involve you? Because you believe you don’t have to even try to assimilate into Australian culture, you think we should just whole-heartedly accept you as you are, with different political and religious beliefs that will end up killing Australians. If you don’t want to assimilate, that’s your choice, but you should never have come here to start with, and you should GO HOME.
Inggo, there’s nothing to fear here. Not everybody here is going to mind if you speak another language in public. Not everybody here is going to mind that you aren’t white. So don’t let that put you off from coming over here.
you know, i really can’t blame that wilson guy. i suddenly remember the way most people treat our visayan brothers here in the Philippines. Since they are in Manila, we usually want them to speak Tagalog instead of bisaya or ilonggo or whatever. But if you know us Filipinos, we don’t usually get angry at them; instead we just laugh at it. :-j
After hearing that Wilson person, hindi ko alam kung gusto ko pang pumunta diyan sa tang’nang bansa na yan. How racist can you be? l-) And I guess you’re right, kuya. Sigurado yang mga puting yan pag pranses o aleman ang nagsasalita e ayos lang sa kanila. pero sigurado kung asyano ang magsasalita, lalaitin nila. ang mundo nga naman.
Hi. Long time, buddy. Thanks for putting your opinion in.
I just don’t want to lash out at Wilson even though I do not agree with him. I surprised even myself.
GJ: As you can imagine, this happens in Miami quite a bit, with such a huge population of Spanish-speaking peoples here. I think you managed to put the main difference on the table: if it’s in public, you’re free to speak however you want. In a party, or with friends, it’s rude to purposely exclude people.
I just can’t believe how calm you acted towards this Wilson guy, who magically expects everyone to become fluent in conversational English just by crossing some imaginary political border. I wonder if he expects mutes to stop signing as well.
Hi again Wilson,
If I was born in Australia, I’m sure I wouldn’t have any troubles adapting the culture here. But as it is, I’m originally from somewhere else and old habits die hard.
Anyway, having thought about it more, I can see how annoying it must be when people around you are talking in a language you don’t comprehend. So, lately, when my wife and I are talking while riding the train, we would insert as much English words in our speech as possible so that the peole around us would get a gist of what we are talking about, at least. It’s not that hard to do anyway since we mostly speak in half-Tagalog and half-English most of the time.
But, I have a feeling you’re not one of those people who would probably agree to a compromise like that. Ah well.
I also want to respond to your other comment regarding some migrants not wanting to assimilate. Well, I guess I really couldn’t speak for every migrant. I can at least speak for the Filipino migrants. From my experience, Filipinos don’t tend to create their own sub-community like a Philippines Town. Filipinos tend to assimilate into the country they inhabit. In fact, in the US, Filipinos aren’t treated as its own ethnic group when they talk about marketing. Supposedly, Filipinos in the US could be considered to be an American in terms of what products would appeal to them. So for us at least, speaking in Tagalog in public is merely a matter of inconvenience rather than an explicit attempt to make ourselves incomprehensible to Australians around us. Well, that’s what I think at least.
Anyway, there is another thing I want to point out. How could someone tell the migrants apart from the tourists? Tourists would probably speak in their native tongue while in public places. Would people like that woman in the story shout at them for not speaking in English? Or should all tourists be highly proficient in English first to be allowed to visit?
Geejay,
In regards to your little scenario concerning France, of course you are wrong. If I chose to move to France, then of course I would speak French – what is the point of moving there if I’m not going to assimilate into the French culture? If I want to “live” Aussie, I’ll stay in Australia, just like anyone who wants to live “Phillipino” should stay in the Phillipines.
You claim that it’s not a matter of not wanting to assimilate into Australian culture, but this is also obviously wrong. People come here from different countries because Australia is such a fantastic place to live, but rather than trying to fit in with our culture and even LAWS, they think they can take advantage of the wonderful lifestyle here while continuing to live by their own standards. Yes, it’s a free world, blah blah blah, but if people are just going to have their own bit of the Phillipines/Malaysia/whatever in Australia, they may as well GO BACK HOME where it’s ALL the Phillipines. It is this fact that people don’t assimilate to our happy, easy-going culture that is ruining my beautiful country. Increasing crime is due to the increasing ethnicity. Don’t try to tell me that’s wrong, because I even work with Vietnamese people who freely admit themselves that the Vietnamese are at the base of Australia’s drug problems (which then translates into more crime etc).
Australians are expected to willingly and happily accommodate for migrants, and yet they don’t have to even consider fitting in with us, because they just settle in their own communities!
As a side-note, a recent survey showed that Australians like New Zealanders and the British best, as we consider them the most likeable, honest, trustworthy, and they share the same values.
And to end, as this discussion was based around whether it is rude for you to chatter away in your own language rather than speaking English – as possibly the only Aussie here, I will tell you that yes, yes it most certainly is.
@Wilson: Thanks for putting in your opinion on the matter. I just think that some people just find it easier to speak in a language they grew up in than in a second language they were taught in school. So, I don’t think it’s a matter of not wanting to assimilate into Australian culture at all. It’s just that people tend to be used to doing things a certain way when they were young that it’s an always a big effort to do thing another way. In this case, speaking in a non-native language to someone who could actually understand you in your native language.
So, imagine if you will, that you moved with your partner to France and you know basic French because you were taught it in school. When in a bus, would you speak to each other about groceries and errands in French when it’s obviously much much easier to talk talk to each other in good old Australian English complete with Aussie slang? Or maybe, you and your partner were arguing about being lost while on the bus. Would you argue amongst yourselves in French or English, if you could help it? Wouldn’t it be much easier to express yourself in a language you were born into? Well, that’s the same case here. It’s a matter of convenience.
Of course, if I were in a small party, I understand that it would be rude to speak in my native language if I know there are people around whom I know wouldn’t understand what we I was saying.
Anyway, I have this suspicion that the woman wouldn’t be shouting her head off if they were French speaking in French or Germans speaking in German instead.
Well, I’m sure even after what I’ve written, you’d still be convinced that the woman was still in the right. So, I guess we can just agree to disagree.
>-
I completley agree with that woman. While I wouldn’t have the courage myself to speak out, as a true Australian (and yes, I DO mean to say ‘true’), I find it completely and unbelievably RUDE for people to fail to speak English. Why come to Australia if you’re not going to assimilate to OUR culture? You may as well stay in your own country. I think there’s a lesson for you all in this particular incident.
@inggo: In your case, I think that it’s just proper for you guys to speak in English when you are in a meeting with them and, of course, when you are actually talking to them. But when you are just talking amongst yourselves (where your American employers aren’t in the discussion), then I think your employers shouldn’t mind that you guys were speaking in Tagalog. After all, they wanted to get the job done quickly, right? I’m sure all of you could speak in English with little or no difficulty but speaking in one’s native language will make it a whole lot easier and quicker to communicate with each other. Di ba?
@Gigi: I agree with everything you said. While in university where the majority of students are Chinese or part-Chinese, I found it annoying when I was in a friendly conversation with my classmates when a couple of them would suddenly talk to each other in Chinese. Like, hello? We’re right here! And it wasn’t as if talking in Tagalog wasn’t natural to them. Anyway, that’s why when I’m with a group of people where some of them couldn’t speak Tagalog, I would talk to other Filipinos in English even if it was slightly more difficult and/or ackward to do so as a courtesy for the people in the group who couldn’t understand Tagalog.
Why was that woman so affected by Sarah’s husband and his friend speaking another language? Didn’t her mother ever teach her that it’s rude to listen in to other people’s private conversations in the first place — and worse, to butt in?
Anyone who has had to learn a second language and try to communicate exclusively in it will realize how difficult it is to fully express oneself. Although it would be inappropriate if, say, I were in a business meeting with two colleagues and they started speaking in Chinese or French — it wouldn’t bother me in the least if I bumped into them in the breakroom and they were having a personal conversation between themselves.
I think people should try to think a bit more of others and realize not everything revolves around themselves. Maybe they should consider that two people are speaking in a different language not because they want to say bad things about someone (or everyone) else in the room, but because they simply want to express what’s on their minds — like all human beings need to do.
wow. i guess that’s really such a big issue. even here in the Philippines, like here in our office, whose bosses are Americans, they feel paranoid whenever us employees are talking in Filipino. But the good thing about it is, they respect our right to talk in Tagalog in front of them, since they are in our native soil and all. They only ask us to speak in English if they needed something from us. Well, ofcourse, we also speak in English from time to time out of politeness to our employers.
@sasha: Hi and thanks. Yeah, we’ve heard about the incident in Bali where some Aussies were yelling at the Indonesians at the site where they were mourning. Although I thought they were pretty rude to do so, I also understand that they must be pretty frightened too. So I guess in that instance, I can’t totally blame them for acting the way they did. But yeah, I realise that the White Australia Policy has only been gone for less than a generation so it may still take a while for Australia to be completely racism free.
@vern: I actually have a Filipina friend and an Australian friend who are married. She would talk to us in Tagalog and we would try our best to respond in English anyway just as a courtesy to her Australian husband. I’m not sure if they have an arrangement where it is okay for her to talk to her Filipino friends in Tagalog or not but just to keep him in the loop, we respond to her in English. Actually, the first time we had dinner with them, I asked the Australian if he’s okay with us all talking in Tagalog because it was easier for us. He was okay with it (I think). Still, I tried to talk in English when I’m facing him. So, in your parents’ case, maybe your Dad should just ask your Mom to speak in English instead. But yeah, that’s just me.
My mother is Filipina and my father is American … and he gets severely pissed off when my Mom talks hours on end in Filipino, with her Filipino friends. Talking in English when other people who do not understand are around is simple courtesy. The woman was out of line though, she had no business in your conversation. Racist though? I don’t think so. Perhaps misplaced patriotism.
Hi Geejay and Racquel
I’m a Melbourne/Filipina girl and I do enjoy reading your posts about your adventures in Melbourneland! And I’m sad to say, but there are a lot of Aussies still around who do carry on that way about people who don’t (dare) speak English in their presence. I don’t know, but I think it’s got something to do with what Aussies believe is polite . It’s their cultural thing I guess, although I’m like you, I totally think it’s really arrogant and the height of rudeness if someone actually said something to your face about it! Well if you read the news lately after the recent bombing in Bali, apparently some Aussies were going up to Indonesians and yelling at them to open up their bags!! And that’s being in another country mind you. So I guess, for those kinds of people, they just got no idea and lack any sort of control – so they’re not worth worrying about!! 8-| But also keep in mind that the White Australia policy wasn’t abolished ’til the 70s. So that sort of mindset hasn’t really gone away. And look at what happened with Vivian Solon. An Aussie citizen deported back to the Philippines. But I digress…I guess I’m doing a bit of palabok myself now!!!
Well take it easy and having said that, I still think Australia’s a great place – as long as you know what goes on!! 
>- Cheers!
@soulman: Don’t worry. It seems to be an isolated case. The incident described by Sarah hasn’t happened to me too often.
Actually, something similar happened to me while I was still in Canberra. This bum-looking person interrupted me and my friend while were talking in a bus. He said that we should be speaking in English. He wasn’t yelling though. I then explained to him that the only reason why we were speaking in Tagalog was because it was easier for us and not because we just didn’t want anybody to understand what we were talking about. It also seemed like he thought we were not good English speakers and detested the fact that we were here in his country and we couldn’t even speak English. Of course, after I did my explanation to him, he seemed agreeable.
@brigid: I also get something like that here. When in a tram in Melbourne, there are a lot of asian students and they are usually chatting away. You kinda feel like you are in a tram in Hong Kong rather than in Australia. I’m trying to learn Japanese and Chinese and it’s always fun to listen in and try to get the gist of their conversation.
@jeff: Exactly. The woman musn’t have thought of that. There’s nothing she could do, really. That’s the price of globalisation.
the woman was very rude on her part. if you’re not part of the conversation (in which she isn’t) and budge in no matter what language they’re speaking, i guess that’s not her business.
maybe if she visits the mid-eastern countries like us here in dubai, she is required to speak arabic.
just like what you’ve said, it’s pretty dumb.
Stupid. I’ve often been on the bus and heard exchange students chatting away in whatever language they grew up with. I actually kinda enjoy it.
Of course, I’m also the one who likes J-pop because I don’t have to focus on the words.
(I’m speaking as one whose ancestors had to come up with some, ah, creative ways to get into America.);)
Like you said, this is unbelievable and undeniably racist.
Its quite understandable if you live in a homogenous country like Japan, China or in my case, Korea wherein almost everyone comes from one certain ancestry/descent but hearing of racism in a “migrant country” like Australia in this day and age is downright incredulous and even scary. I’ve always believe that countries like Australia were known for their tolerance and acceptance of people of different race/culture but this post shatters that belief. I just hope this is an isolated incident for it would be a shame if this type of racism becomes widespread and accepted. 